The Mountain Made Podcast
The Mountain Made Podcast
36. Jamey Biggs: Ceramicist and kiln guru
In this recording from our road trip, we sat down with Jamey Biggs a ceramicist and department chair at Concord University. Growing up in southern West Virginia Jamey learned the value of hard work, the people performing it, and the stories these folks held. In this episode we discuss how these factors have played into his work throughout his time as an artists. We also delve into the many folks he views as influences on his practice, as well as, how he continues to meet his heroes through his many roles at Concord University. ALSO, Thank you to Chase Bowman for allowing us to record in his home/studio.
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Music Provided by: Darrin Hacquard
Hey everyone, thanks again for listening to another episode of the Mountain Aid Podcast. Before we get into the episode, if you haven't already, please take the time to leave a review on your respective listening platform. It really helps us help artists, which is the whole point of this entire thing. Anyways, we hope you enjoyed the episode and we'll see you again in two weeks. Jamie Biggs, are you a sculptor? How do you describe yourself?
Speaker 2:I find that I teach sculpture and ceramics. That seems to be the way it comes out of my mouth.
Speaker 1:Okay, You say you teach or you don't consider yourself.
Speaker 2:No, i do, I do, i mean that's what I do, but it's just, it's everything. By the time I get started running my mouth, there's not really a limit to what's going to come out of it. But yeah, my wife and I have got four kids. I guess, like technically, i'm the department chair at Concord for the Department of Fine Arts and Communication. But yeah, primarily, if somebody asks what I really do at Concord, yeah, i teach sculpture and ceramics. That's what I would like my job to be, is that I teach sculpture and ceramics. But again, it's kind of everything And if you really start analyzing it, the whole gets deep.
Speaker 1:That was like what was kind of scary. I messaged Chase and I said hey, if you know anybody else, he's like oh, jamie Biggs. I was like, yeah, because we were talking before I knew of your work, because of Eddie Austin. But then you go down this rabbit hole and all of a sudden we were talking to administrators and people who actually know what they're talking about, and so you guys are up here and we're below the floorboards here. As far as intelligence goes, i don't know about that.
Speaker 2:I mean we just hopefully Chase will agree. But Concord's a small school and everybody kind of does what they need to do to make that place work, so it's not really about no one what's what or anything of that effect. I know I've certainly joked and there may be some truth to it. The way I became an administrator was not getting fired. I've been there since 2004. So I would say to small school your ego is not massaged at any point, like you know. You just it's hard to tell what you're going to have to do. But doing that or not doing it is the difference between succeeding or not succeeding.
Speaker 1:So you grew up not necessarily here in Princeton, but in Somersville, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so hour and a half north in Somersville, similar landscape. I think recently I've been been saying Somersville is the northernmost tip of southern West Virginia.
Speaker 1:Did you grow enough where you always into art, or did you think you'd grow up and be involved in it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, in a lot of ways. You know, my mom was always supportive in any kind of creative endeavors. Grandparents were too. But I think, more important than that, i was just around creative individuals. My mom was the oldest of five kids. Three of those boys were contractors of different types. So my grandpa, you know, he grew up on a farm. So these were all just people that got things done And problem solving was a big part of all those activities. My mom was a school teacher and it's the same thing. I think problem solving is the thread that runs through all those professions. So, yeah, i don't think I wasn't around anybody that would identify as an artist, but I was around a lot of handmade objects, you know. There were a lot of quilts, there were a lot of pots, there were a lot of things made out of wood, you know. There were knives that had stories about how they came to be, you know, and landscapes that had stories too. So, yeah, i think problem solving, storytellers, that's kind of the combination that steered me towards a career in art.
Speaker 1:And you mentioned that you had a bunch of contractors in your family. I'm sure that influenced a lot of the work you make now. But what steered you towards art instead of swinging a hammer or you know?
Speaker 2:Swinging a hammer. Swinging a hammer steered me strongly towards art. You know I spent a lot of time on the business end of a shovel And the hammer. Specifically, i spent one summer I was so fortunate to get this job my stepfather landed They called it summer relief program when Ravenswood Aluminum was still in its full capacity And that job was slinging a sledgehammer. So that's what you did, like you hammered this bath off these anodes.
Speaker 2:The job title was fine, cleaner. It was fine cleaning with a sledgehammer, and that was a different culture, a different experience, and it was hot, but it helped me study a lot. I don't know, though, like I did enjoy those experiences, and even that experience at Ravenswood Aluminum, because it was such, you know, it was so hot, the work was so intense that it really shaped the culture inside of that factory. Like that was a different way of thinking, And there were some pretty noteworthy people there that I had contact with, and really smart folks too, that chose that as a living, because that was a job that you show up and you work really, really hard, and when you leave, you leave the job there, and there was a lot of beauty in that.
Speaker 1:I get that. So you say, hey, i don't want to be slinging this sledgehammer forever, and then you buckle down with school.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Wherever you went to school, you went for art.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I checked the art education box And that was at all. The Glynville State College extension was in Somersville. You know, i graduated in 96. Somewhere over that summer I checked that box on that paper that had a deadline and had to be done that way. But I didn't really know. Like I made that decision because the only things that I really liked about those last few years of high school were really my time in the art room.
Speaker 2:I had contact with a noteworthy instructor Phillip Berry was this gentleman's name, but just beautiful pots fell out of him And I think his teacher. He studied at Glynville State with Charles Scott. Charles Scott's just passed away in the last couple of years, but Phillip Berry was really, you know, he really learned everything he could from Charles Scott. So I'd say, mr Berry, i'd like to learn how to do that. And he's like, well, you should, you know, you should give us a try and say, well, how do you do it? And he'd say, well, you do it like this. And he would do it and it looked effortless And these beautiful pots just fell out of his fingertips And I'd sit down and like it wouldn't work. It wouldn't work And I you know I had such a limited time too, like I had to make something happen in 45 minutes each day. And if it didn't happen I didn't get another shot until the next day. And if it was Friday it was even even worse. So it kind of ratcheted up the pressure And I, you know, early on, just started, you know, trying to apply problem solving to it.
Speaker 2:Like, well, i can't, i can't center that clay, but I can take this tool I've seen a wood lathe before. I can just cut off whatever's not centered. So I'd take five pounds of clay and stick that to the wheel and I cut three of it off And then be like, all right, well, what do I do now, mr Berry? And he'd say, well, you stick your finger in the middle, you keep everything centered and you stretch that clay. Because that is a big difference between a wood lathe and a potter's wheel. On the potter's wheel that clay stretches. On a wood lathe You just whatever's not a pot, you cut it off And that and that's so. That's what I started doing. You know I tried to carve the inside of these things out and you know that worked for a while. But I knew that was wrong because I could see Mr Berry like doing it the right way.
Speaker 2:But there was something about the intensity of that trial and error and that the trial and error had consequences, if you know. If I wasn't successful, i had to live with it for a day or two And I don't know. I like that, i really liked that. So when it came to checking that box for college, i was like, well, mr Berry had to come from somewhere as well. May as well do that, because the only part of school that I liked was my time in the art building or you know, or in the band room, and because of that I was a solid C student And I had to pay for my college education. Because of that, when I had to begin paying for it and starting at the Glenville extension yeah, that focuses the mind too And my grades improved quickly and Glenville actually ended up giving me some scholarships because of my performance in that first semester.
Speaker 1:And I think it says a lot, because there are not very many high school kids that leave school and say I can't wait to go back and get more tomorrow, if only for like an hour or so. So that passion was there. Whenever you check that box to go to Glenville, did you know that you're going to do ceramics and things then?
Speaker 2:No, no, i honestly had no idea. And at that point in my life when I started the Glimble Extension Center, i worked for Jurgen Lorenzen. He was the owner of Nicholas Photography at that point but he was a professional photographer as of America photographer. He's retired since, but that's what I was doing for a day job And Jurgen, like his energy really went with his clients. Like when somebody came in, like he was super jovial and could have everybody talking and laughing and feeling comfortable, you know, and downstairs he was just all business. So working for him I feel like I learned to be precise about what I did, like some of the stuff that I learned in high school, my drafting class. I was able to put that to work cutting mats and other activities in the photographer's studio.
Speaker 2:But his collection of cameras were fantastic. Like just look at all these cameras on the shelf and try to figure out like how they worked or why they worked. And you know, somewhere along the way I saw this camera. It had at least two lenses, but I swear it had like four lenses on it because some of them were viewfinder lenses And I didn't really have an opportunity to ask him about it. But at that point, like the library was on the way home. I go to the library and looked it up and I found out about stereo photography and started building a slide bar rigs for a 35 millimeter camera that I had at that point. You know making these slides that were 3D And I did that for the county fair one year, but it was just. You're kind of out there, you know, and the interesting experiences are there if you put in the effort and you dig in, would you say, like you're more of just a creative mind.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i think that's the family that I came from and the experiences that I had is the label might not have been maker or creative, but the activity definitely was. You know, and I think you know, things like welding, woodworking. Those are things that I saw from a very early age.
Speaker 1:So you finished your time at Glenville. You said you graduated in 96.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I graduated in 96. I was only at Glenville for one year And then I transferred to Concord at that point and graduated from Concord in 2001. And fall of 2001, I was at Indiana State for my MFA.
Speaker 1:Something that Robbie mentioned earlier. You two had a little gallery in the corner of one of the spaces.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it was the mezzanine on the theater. that building at Concord was built in 1969. You know some of the theaters that we saw in Manhattan, you know, like there was the bar in the back And like the mezzanine kind of had that feel to it. It was actually even in the 90s. it was a designated indoor smoking area but it was never utilized correctly And Robbie and I kind of got this idea to put this show up here. I think it was actually Robbie's idea to get the show moving in there.
Speaker 1:I think he got the permission to use the space Well to paraphrase. he kind of said that you had a lot of the skill and he was pretty confident. Yeah. So he was like I was always overly confident. He said, jamie, everybody just kind of recognized that he was really good.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, i mean we definitely made it happen. I mean we didn't have any money Robbie had. I want to say they're called scrims, you know, but something that looks like a wall but is made out of fabric for a theater set. You know, we built a few of those and then we weren't allowed to drive any nails. So we rigged up this way to kind of wedge lumber against the ceiling, like I know the box that the lights came in. We found these they look like track lights but it was just three lights attached together found those at lowes And I think we spent $30 on them, and then we'd use the boxes that they came in to kind of wedge a board against the ceiling and what hold, like a seesaw it would hold it up and hold a little pressure there, but we didn't have to drive any nails.
Speaker 2:But everything's made of asbestos, so it's a good thing.
Speaker 1:So now I can't breathe. You mentioned going to Indiana. We spoke to Stephen Huger, who he has Bachelor's from Marshall, and then he went out West and somebody encouraged him to leave his immediate area. Were you also encouraged to do that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. The head of the ceramics program at Indiana State at that point was Dick Hay And my undergraduate professor, steve Glazer, at Concord. He was one of Dick Hay's students And then Bob Semmelie, down at West Virginia Tech, was in Montgomery. Bob Semmelie was also one of Dick Hay's students. So around that time I think Bob had actually set up a demonstration with Dick Hay for the West Virginia Potters Gathering. So Dick Hay came and lectured about his work and demonstrated some techniques and things.
Speaker 2:But between the two of them, when I'd go to conferences with Steve, they would have these Indiana State alumni events. And I'd go to this alumni event and I'd talk to Steve. And I'd talk to Bob and say, oh, you should go to Indiana State, like that's a good one to go to, like they've all got jobs. And then I'd go to this conference and meet all these alumni And, yeah, like they all had jobs, like I've probably been teaching 10 years before I realized, like of course, the people at the conference all have jobs, that stuff's expensive. Yeah, so I went, but it worked either way. Like Dick Hay, when I studied under him he was very much at the end of his career, so he had 30 years worth of cheerleaders piled up and Steve and Bob Semmelie were among those. But so, yeah, i guess I was kind of steered into that.
Speaker 2:But Bob Semmelie, he was a remarkable individual too. So, like you're talking about that show that Robbie and I put together, you know that was something that Bob was aware of. And then, after we had our actual you know, like our capstone shows or our senior exhibitions, bob invited me to tech because I'd made all this work, you know, and Bob asked me to come down and have a show and give a talk down there. You know, he was a real noteworthy individual because while it was there, it was like I'll come over to the house, you know, and so I go to his house and it's a lot like Chase's house that we're in here. You see all this amazing artwork and all these artworks And I'd say these are no different. They all have a story, you know. There's a story about where they came from, how they got made, you know, and a lot of them were Bob's. But also, seeing Bob kind of switch roles from being the department chair, being the ceramics professor, to being dad and things And it was it was really, really something to see. But yeah, they. They were definitely among the Indiana state cheerleaders.
Speaker 2:So yeah, somewhere I developed the idea that studying with Dick Hay was what I needed to do, and I think Dick Hay's views on art and creativity were probably more hard-edged than mine. Dick Hay would not use the word craftsmanship in his beginning ceramics class And I remember one of my studio mates was presenting a little lesson and he said you've got to have good craftsmanship. And Dick Hay lost his mind, just totally flipped out, was yelling and screaming like they don't know what that is. I don't know what that is. What is craftsmanship? He just went on and I would see these things happen. I wouldn't address them directly with Dick, but after you just kind of hover around and listen to conversations and peel back the layers And what it was about is that he didn't want to limit anyone's thinking by saying there's a right way or wrong way to do that And for some folks that really worked Like that could really land, you know, this idea that there's not not a right way, not a wrong way.
Speaker 2:You know, i think Dick would attribute that back to I think it's John Holt and a book that was popular among art educators in the 70s. It was. The book was titled How Children Fail And it was about this idea that students love to learn but they hate to be taught. And you know a lot of what happens if the teacher's not real careful. The students just kind of figure out the teacher and figure out where the rewards are and all of that And it kind of shortcuts that process. So it was kind of geared towards homeschooling and you know an example of that super idealized notions of education. But Dick Hay was committed.
Speaker 2:You know I remember the day that he was supposed to be showing me how to fire a gas kiln. I'd never fired a gas kiln And I'd gotten a situation where all the electric kilns that I was comfortable with were tied up. So he was like, be here at one o'clock and I'll show you how to fire this gas kiln. So I loaded a whole semester's worth of work in this one giant kiln, because you know Indiana State was a pretty big school by my standards, so big school, big kilns and lots of them. So I loaded a grad semester's worth of work, like if it doesn't come out, i'm going home, kind of loading that kiln. And so I loaded it in there and one o'clock comes and Dick finishes his class and he comes over.
Speaker 2:He's like all right, you flip this switch and you'll hear it ignite, and it was an automated system for lighting it. You flip that switch and it lights and he says all right, so you just want to do a little gas, a little air. You don't want to build too much pressure and reduce these, because those are oxidation glazes, but you don't want to fire too slow, because those are oxidation glazes. If you go too slow they will reduce and I'll see you tomorrow. And he started walking away, like like he turned and went out the door. It's like Dick, you said you were going to tell me how to fire it And he turned around like dead serious, he's like I did, it's a little gas, it's a little air, i'll see you tomorrow. And it was not an accident. He didn't have something to do. I was being thrown in, it was exactly what was happening. But at any rate he was, he was heading out the door and I was freaking out, i was nauseous and all this And I got to kill him, moving slow enough that I was certain it wouldn't blow up the piece of green clay in the in the cone pack And I just I literally ran from the clay studio and the art annex about a quarter mile to the library And that's the fastest I've ever been through a card catalog And I just started digging. I got two or three books And I think it was Olson's kiln book was the one that had three pages about how to fire a gas kiln in it And I just started. You know, i got it checked out and just ran back and was just reading and running at the same time and just spent the next 13 hours just kind of pacing and reading.
Speaker 2:Because the thing is like a gas kiln is really good at reducing things. So, like a lot of a lot of the pottery that we use will be cone 10 reduction That's, that's pretty common. That pulls the oxygen off the iron molecules. But Dick Hay and his lack, i would say it was a disrespect for craft. His work involved amazing craftsmanship But as far as the traditions of craft, like he was, really he disregarded a lot of that. That was kind of one of the things that made this fun is all my work was in this kiln. That was not right for firing this work.
Speaker 2:You know, somewhere along the way it was like that reduction work you know, cone 10 reduction. It's. It's brown, like it's blue brown or it's orange brown or it's kind of a creamy brown, but it's all brown And it's because the iron gets so strong in those glazes. So Dick Hay, as part of a disregard of tradition and craft, he was like, yeah, just use these low fire glazes off the shelf Like you just drive to Indianapolis, you buy them. If you want red, you get the jar of red. If you want, if you want, yellow, you get the jar of yellow.
Speaker 2:And I had gone all in on that in that semester. But that stuff has to go through an electric kiln and I had it all in the gas kiln. So not only was I reading and freaking out, but I was also having to kind of flip everything around because I couldn't do what the book said, because that was really designed for brown glazes and it would ruin these colorful glazes that I had in there. So it was a long. It was a long night, but 13 hours I fired it didn't have any issue. Like it worked out just um, i don't know if that's what I signed up for or not.
Speaker 2:When I went to study with Dick Hay, if you know, i was thinking well, you know I'm paying for this. I would assume somebody would give me answers, but it's not really that it was. I'm not real sure what that was, but it was definitely a sink or swim moment And I value that experience a lot because it also makes you comfortable. You know, up to that point I think it was in my head that, like, oh, that's only a thing a professor does is firing the gas kiln. And it's really not. It is a little gas, it's a little gas, it's a little air and it's a lot of damn stress. You know there's a lot of jaw clenching and pacing that goes into that, but it worked out. It worked out and you learn it. So it kind of demystifies all that And maybe the idea of calling it craft or saying there's a right way and a wrong way, maybe that dresses things up a little bit more than they need to be.
Speaker 1:From the sounds, I thought this was going to go in a totally different direction. I thought you would say everything exploded and you fell, and then you ended up back.
Speaker 2:Well, no, i saw some of my classmates where it didn't go that well for them, and I can't remember if those experiences were before or after In my work.
Speaker 1:There's nothing that I can do. That just totally cool. I toss a piece of wood and I make a new one. But I feel like you guys have hours and hours and hours into something before you ever get to like a kiln. So you're standing there for 13 hours. You know you're like invested in this. It's going to be that long You're reading this, realizing, oh, this is all wrong And you can't just stop it.
Speaker 2:I'm assuming You know I maybe I could have. I mean, maybe I could have stopped it, but Dick said what he needed to say. What he said was not an accident. He said a little gas, a little air and I'll see you tomorrow. Like I didn't misinterpret any of that, I guess what he didn't go as far as saying like I'm done talking about this, But the way he was walking away indicated he was done talking about this.
Speaker 1:So whenever you finish up out there, where are you at in your like career and your artistic endeavors?
Speaker 2:Well, at that point, personal life is probably more noteworthy than work at that point. So I had gone straight through. I didn't miss a semester somewhere along the way like. My wife is from Oak Hill And she seemed to think that we ought to end up back here And I had an offer to be an adjunct concord. I was certain that that was an awful mistake, but that's what we did. I moved back into the house that I grew up in in Summersville because my mom had gotten married. She moved out there around Ripley So we moved there and I drove to concord a couple of days a week And right as I started that job there was an adjunct that quit. That left a few courses open. So I went from just teaching one or two classes to having a full load that first semester And then by the spring my my undergraduate professor left. So I was recommended to fill the position at that point. But yeah, i just came back from it and came straight back to Concord from Indiana.
Speaker 1:And didn't get fired.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and didn't get fired and proceeded to not get fired.
Speaker 1:Your work now is mostly like the heavy machinery ask things, but it sounds like you're doing a lot of things with color glazes Oh yeah, Yeah, i think that that color business was really a really a phase.
Speaker 2:If you look up Dick Hayes' work, his work is colorful, is really colorful And it's beautiful And he's he was an amazing draftsman and everything. So and if I would compare the work that Dick was making to the work that Bob Semley was making, or Steve, i was not alone in that idea of using those under glazes, like that was something that seemed to be in the drinking water at Indiana State And again, it was because Dick just wasn't. He kind of viewed this idea of brown as a default really. So things like wood firing, he didn't really value those. You know he had made those. Those were phases for him, but but he really valued the color choices and all of that And I saw that in the work of Bob Semley. So I just kind of seemed like something I should do. But after a semester of that, like I didn't, i didn't get into Indiana State making brightly colored work And I didn't leave making brightly colored work either. I actually ended up drifting towards things that I thought would reflect wood fired pots, you know, kind of a palette like this that you see there. I think I came in with six people. I think there were like six of us that got to Indiana State all at the same time And you'd have to kind of explore that kiln yard And going through there, like I think this is a wood kiln And there's like there's trees growing out of the top of it.
Speaker 2:And Dick Hay sent us on a whole misguided effort with that too. He's like, yeah, you guys should fire that. Like well, how do you fire it? He's like, well, you throw some wood in it, all right. So I went and got a book, got a book by the guy that designed the design the kiln start. Like, well, dick, i think we're gonna have to put a chimney on that. It's like, yeah, you should do that, and you know he would order all this stuff, whereas like he ordered the mortar and all that And somebody threw a chimney. So we added about 10 foot of chimney on it And it was just a horrible misguided affair. And the reason you would wood fire is like the ash from wood is mostly calcium, and the wood that you're burning for fuel, that ash just lands on the pots and then you just keep firing So you get the temperature up above 2000 degrees And that calcium just melts with the silica and the clay and it forms a glass on the outside of those pots, and pots is a I'll use that as a default for a ceramic object but it lands on the pots Where that pot is in the kiln. The type of kiln it is. You know how the flame flows around that pot. That all determines of surface markings. It's a really interesting process to me. So even in grad school it was interesting to me. But the group dynamics.
Speaker 2:We loaded this kiln, it was like a reality television show. You read the book. The book said this would be over in four hours, 13 hours in. I was calling somebody. It's like Hey, can I borrow your leaf blower? Like this, this is not working. So so that's what we did.
Speaker 2:I, you know, i brought the leaf blower out and started the leaf blower and the temperature started going up and everything. One of my classmates thought that we shouldn't do that, that that wasn't natural. And they were. They were pretty fired up about it, like they shouldn't do that. All right, put the leaf blower down. And then Dick Hay rolls in in the afternoon. It was like and he was like Oh yeah, this isn't working. Thanks, dick. And Dick Hay takes. He took the leaf blower from. He's like, give me that. He's like you got to stick it in there. And then he stuck it in the firebox of the kiln And when he did that it just like all the coals blew through that kiln and out the stack.
Speaker 2:I think we fired that kiln like another eight hours, like until we just weren't speaking to each other. Anyway, we burned a truckload of wood, got a truckload of ash on the, the objects inside the kiln. So that was Saturday, like Monday morning. We show up, everybody shows up, we unbrick the kiln and we just carefully lift all these ash covered objects out of the wood kiln and carry them inside to the gas kiln with the ash in place and load them in the gas kiln and fire them to melt the ash. But that was kind of the the end of my my wood firing at Indiana State.
Speaker 1:So Dick is just the best, worst instructor.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i love that guy because he wouldn't. If I ever really needed him, if I was ever really in a jam, he was on my team, i can count on him. But like if if I clearly had not been given enough shit on any given day, i could also count on him for that.
Speaker 1:So you said your work kind of gets back to being brown again.
Speaker 2:Much to his dismay, possibly, no, no, i. He was also really keen on everybody being who they are. Yeah, i think the colorful glazes, i think there was a force to that And I think he just liked color. So, yeah, left Indiana, you know, came back to Concord. Concord has a really nice ceramic setup. At that point we had four electric kilns, brand new gas kiln All those were commercial and fired that gas kiln for a few years, kept getting into shows.
Speaker 2:And then I had, you know, i had students at that point, i had other people that had thoughts and goals and aspirations, and that's. It was a really exciting time. It was an exciting point in my life. So somewhere around 2006, 2007, i started really, concord University has an awesome visiting artist program. It's amazing And within any other schools, our sides, like Concord, really invests in guest artists, like people that come down, they put on a show, they'll demonstrate for a day or two.
Speaker 2:I started meeting my heroes that way because I fell into the gallery director role because nobody else wanted it. At that point they were like, yeah, let the kid do it. And I was like, i'm so happy to have a job I'm in. And then it was like, how much money do I have again? And then I started calling my heroes. First things first. Like Brad Schwiger needs a show here over at Ohio University. I learned so much from that guy, like you know. He came in, he demonstrated, like everybody in the room was fired up. I was fired up, students were fired up. He's talking about atmospheric firings, you know, primarily soda firings. And in that exchange, somewhere like picking up his work, dropping it off, he's like you want to come look at the kiln pad. And I was like I don't know, brad, i'm kind of in a hurry. He's like all right, well, come on, let's go Look at this. He's like you want to come look at this kiln pad. This kiln pad is bigger than the property that I grew up on as a kid, you know. It's like an acre and a half And it's just polluted with kilns like soda kilns, wood kilns, all this stuff, and there's just no way to see something like that and not be affected.
Speaker 2:So by 2008, like we were building a wood kiln at Concord, i had had contact with a really, oh, a really supportive administrator, the Dean. At that point, you know, i went in asking. My question was can I solicit free materials to build a small kiln. And I'm thinking like the kiln that I had in Indiana State. And before I could even get my question out, this guy was like putting on his coat. I was like, yeah, we got to go find a spot. This guy was amazing. I was like I would like to build a kiln And his response was I would like you to help people learn stuff. Like, and he was, he was all in. So we got the location.
Speaker 2:I start making some calls. I found maybe a pickup load of materials and Dr Raul calls and he's like Jamie, i can't find any bricks, like a. I didn't know he was looking for bricks for me. But then he says I can't find you any bricks, we're just going to buy him. He's like he said let me know how many you need.
Speaker 2:In my, my students had invited person Judith Duff from from Brevard, north Carolina, to come out and Judith Duff came and just got everybody to worked up more about this idea of atmospheric firing. So when Dr Raul was like, let me know how many bricks you need, i'm like I need all the bricks because I didn't know what kind of kiln I was going to build. I was going to build the kiln that fit the amount of bricks that I had. I didn't. I didn't let on. I got off the phone. And I picked up the phone called Judith Duff, because Judith Duff's daughter was an architect. She had gone to, i think, iowa, university of Iowa, had gone out there, looked at his kilns and counted the bricks and made some drawings and came back and she built her kilns based on that. But in between there she gave the sketches to her daughter, who used a 3D modeling program to draw those kilns brick by brick and print out all the layers. And then those plans, like Judith wanted $125 for the plans, but they had a brick count, a known quantity for steel, and all that stuff was like, judith, i'm going to need these things tomorrow. Can you, can you please overnight these? And she did, and I gave Dr Raul the total and then we started building this kiln, which led to an, you know, another pile of misguided adventures. But yeah, i mean Concord's been nice to me, you know. I really I really got to continue my education there, i really got to dig in with wood firing And I've really I've met the people that are inspirational to too. But but yeah, so 2008 to about 2011,. I made a lot of pots. We had a new kiln and we had to feed that thing pots because, you know it needed stuff to go in it. So I guess, like what I should cover too, like, leave an Indiana State.
Speaker 2:My work was about. You know, for me it was about the stories that I had heard growing up. You know, my grandmother, especially, was the keeper of stories in the family And I'd try to incorporate those things into the objects that I was making. But it kind of set up a situation to where the audience didn't necessarily have much room to participate in that. You know, like I could talk, i could talk about it for hours, but it was more about how I saw the objects and not really what the audience brought to the table. So somewhere around 2011, i had been making functional wood fired pots and Robbie and Christine had put together a show at the Beckley Art Center And Robbie was like I'd like you to be in the show, but I want you to bring sculpture, i don't want you to bring any pots. He was working at Tamarack at that point and he said I don't want any pots. I was like, all right, i'm in.
Speaker 2:And then just the Tonka trucks that I had as a kid when I was in Somersville, like the Tonka trucks and my, my big wheel. Like those were my prized, prized possessions as a kid. So when I was making that first round of trucks I just wanted that to be as far away from wood firing as it could be. So I developed a different clay body that I didn't have to baby it as it dried, you know, because that's a big thing. Clay shrinks as it dries And if you dry it too fast it'll shrink unevenly. You know, build those stresses and stress relieves itself in the form of cracks. So I didn't want to deal with that. I wanted to make the shape and forget about it. It's an earthenware clay body so it fires low. So all that stuff. You know we were talking about the stress of firing these gas kilns. I wanted to eliminate all that. We had just gotten a digital kiln at Concord. So if I made the clay to go in that kiln it would fire like a crock pot, like it just pushed the button and go home. And I think I had three kids at that point too. So like the idea of hitting the button and going home was good too, but at any rate. So I developed this clay body and started making these trucks And I was like, well, i've got these trucks, i got to put stuff in these trucks And it was just so much fun.
Speaker 2:It was so much fun. I put bricks in one, i put nails, nails in one, you know I had corn in one. But anyway, i think that show at Beckley too I ended up Summersville, nicholas County had the potato festival And I think right around the time the show was going together, my grandfather had passed away. But when we'd harvest his potatoes he'd spend a week in the garage. like the potatoes would all spread out on the garage floor of the concrete and dry a little bit, and then he would go through and just pick out the really small potatoes. You know he'd keep the larger ones and the larger ones would go in the potato bin. The small ones would be fed to the cows. But for whatever reason, like the logistics of his passing, like those small potatoes, they didn't make it to the cows. So for whatever reason, i had them. I had them and they went in this one dump truck, the Beckley Art Center. Well, they started to grow during the show And I just I loved it, i loved it. It was one of my favorite pieces And that kind of set off an idea that led to these things actually just becoming planners and trying to develop situations like wheat grass will grow in the dark, like you don't have to have a light for wheat grass in it.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I like the idea of these works growing things and trying to give somebody a reason to come back to the same show, as opposed to seeing it and saying, oh, i've checked that box, like see what it looks like in a few more days. Grass was always an easy one because I could count on it. But building a little landscape in the back of that truck in the soil and then letting the grass grow up between it you know the kind of the way we'd see junked cars in other folks yards with trees and the brush kind of coming up in them too, but just kind of compressing that timeframe.
Speaker 1:So you didn't start making the trucks and things until that show. That's right.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:That's the first time, and you're like more than 10 years deep into your career at that point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely Yeah, and that was at Robbie's urging. I mean, that was for that show because, again, like there was no mistake in that, he said he didn't want any pods. But yeah, that was that one came out. Now, you know, i think the aesthetics that are there I think because of the work with my uncles and the time that I spent around heavy equipment and things like that you know, whether those are tractors or backhoes or excavators and bulldozers, and even my time in Ravenswood aluminum those places have an aesthetic. I was thinking about this really in terms of the objects that my grandmother had value for. So, like the pots or my grandfather's favorite knives, those things all had surfaces that were clearly worn. You know they were clearly worn but that didn't make them anything less precious. You could see that same thing in the equipment that we were around. You know those surfaces were worn but they were still functioning and they kept going. So, yeah, i think that interest and industrial look of things, industrial surfaces that was definitely in my brain.
Speaker 1:In the making of these things. You have them, ranging from everything about from the size of your fist all the way up to like large planners correct. How do you get all the various parts together? Because I'm assuming you don't just dump these things in a mold and then plop them out, right, No?
Speaker 2:probably the best way to talk about that is I can talk about the truck, because I think we can visualize that without too many pieces. There's a bed to the truck, you know, there's four wheels and there's a chassis. So the majority of this work comes out of wooden molds, molds that I've built. Some of them are plywood, some of them are just rough cut lumber. I'll make the mold in the shape I want first, and then I'll burn it and then I go back at it with a steel brush And so all the soft components of the grain, all that stuff gets brushed out and the hard components of the grain get raised So it exaggerates the wood grain in those molds. So something like the chassis. it's really just a rectangle. It's got pieces cut out of it, but essentially it's a rectangular box And I'm still using that clay body that I developed for that show for Robbie Moore. I'll just start pressing the clay in it and I built a little bit of internal structure to give it some strength. And then you know, it may be meaningful to you, but it's a great point in history to be alive in that wood screws have gotten awesome in the last 20 years, so like there's these, these Torx head screws that have the little slice in the end, like you don't have to pre-drill for them. They are amazing. But I started finding those things, started building these molds with them, because I put them together and take them apart and I just didn't have to fuss with it too much. So like the chassis has a mold, the piece of clay comes out of that and then I build the fenders on it and I attach the gas tanks to that. The cab gets attached to that. The dump body comes out of another plywood mold that I just went at with a router to kind of, you know, build up like the panels on the sides of the bed. You know those are just going into the plywood with a router and then using those screws to hold it together. And that's that's what changed. My life is, i could run those screws with the grain and the plywood and it wouldn't split out, but I did that. So that's another mold.
Speaker 2:And then the wheels are probably the most exciting part. On that I threw the center part of the wheel. I made that on the Potter's wheel and then used a five gallon bucket as a mold around that and poured plaster in and built a two part mold so that I can just press mold, that I just press the clay into it from the backside and then this perfectly round wheel comes out And then the tread. The tread comes off a piece of rough cut lumber that again I hacked up with the router and burned and scrubbed. So the tread comes on separately.
Speaker 2:So I'll slip and score all that, i'll scratch it up and apply wet clay to it and then pull that slab off, that other wood to wrap it around that wheel. And then I go in with a little sheet metal fasteners that I've got these screws that I just really like from from loaves, so that I can, i can push in there and try to get that clay to look like it's plastic, like it's rough, it's plastic and it's kind of flexing around that wheel, and then have those connection points show show some tension, even though they really don't. I want them to feel like there's tension in those attachment points.
Speaker 1:You're blowing my mind a little bit. So would you take all these parts that they're individually like fired and they're hard, but to connect them to one another?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's in the, that's in the green state. That's why the clay is still plastic, the chassis is one piece. The chassis's got the fenders on it, the gas tanks, the cab is on the chassis, the dump bed is a separate piece and like, and even after everything's fired it'll just set on top, like it. gravity holds it there.
Speaker 2:Now the wheels because the wheels are all different. like I'm wrapping them up and I try to. you know I want every wheel is different the way that I'm putting them together. they're they're pretty exaggerated and they're different sizes and shapes. So I take that chassis and I prop it up on wood to the height that I want and then I put the wheel up there and then I'll drill with a I don't know what the type of bit this is. It's a masonry bit but it's got diamonds on the end of it. It needs water, like the cut well with water. but it's just in accordance with drill and I'll just, i'll just mark each wheel and drill it, but like that wheel belongs in that location on that truck. You can't interchange them, but because I'm drilling the chassis for each wheel, like that allows them to set level.
Speaker 1:So you don't have like a rock planter or a rocking truck.
Speaker 2:But you know I'll drill it and then I bolt it in there and then I've got a little clay piece that glues on top of the steel bolt. You know the bulldozer's is a similar situation Like the truck. The tracks are separate from the chassis, the blade is separate and all that. The bulldozers just kind of glue together, but the trucks, the wheels are bolted in and they have to be where they're at.
Speaker 1:These things are pretty cool. I'd encourage anybody to go look them up if you haven't seen them already. But a track hoe is a very rigid metal thing, but yours are almost like there's some curves to them and they're almost like. they look like they're rubber almost And they're so cool to see. I really like it. You've been making these things for now probably close to 10 years. Do you still get as much fun, like an enjoyment, out of making them now as you did?
Speaker 2:Yeah, i do Like. the last few years I've been working on the small scale versions, you know, for a minute or two. I couldn't make them fast enough And then I noticed like, hey, these things are piling up around here. So, yeah, the smaller ones. it seems like it's a little easier for them to find homes and you're a little more willing to take a risk with something that's smaller too.
Speaker 1:If you don't mind my asking, where are you selling your stuff now?
Speaker 2:I still deal with Tamarack primarily. I dealt with the Department of Earth for a while and dealt with Taylor Books for a while. But yeah, it seems like the shows just come out of the woodwork And those smaller ones are a little better for jury shows because they can ship. You know, those large ones just don't I mean they ship well, but it's great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how heavy are they?
Speaker 2:The trucks are about 110 pounds. So, yeah, i think, like you said, i started making those over 10 years ago and it was just, you know, some kind of fury. It was like I don't care what it weighs, i want it to look like this, which is a great way to not make money. But that's what I did, that's what it did.
Speaker 1:So you've been making work here for ever. In a day It feels like what keeps you going at it.
Speaker 2:I, you know it's a good time to be at Concord, Like Chase is out there, Kevin Bangton is out there, We've got a good faculty there right now, You know, and the students all change too, So there doesn't seem to be an end, Like it doesn't stop. But I talked about Judith Duff and those plans for that kiln coming from her. Judith, you know, asked me to come fire at some of the works that she did. But she had become really enamored with the idea of Japanese ceramics and had traveled to Japan and collected some shards and then had those analyzed in North Carolina. One of the more interesting cool things about ceramics is, like most things are mineral sourced because they're inexpensive, but those minerals have unique chemical makeup but those chemicals are not unique. So you can find ingredients that are chemically different but you just change the proportions and you still make the same glass, Like if you look at the elements that are in that glass and the proportions that are there, you can make that with a million different recipes. So what Judith did? she went to Japan, she obtained that chemical analysis and then looked for materials that were in the ground in her area of North Carolina So she could find different field spars in North Carolina to replicate this ancient Japanese glaze that she had found and she built some kilns to do that. And in doing all that she made connections in Japan And she was just a really generous person.
Speaker 2:So through contact with Judith Duff, I met John Dix And I ended up spending a few weeks at John Dix's house helping him build a kiln. And in Japan John Dix is from Michigan, Like he grew up in Michigan but he's lived and worked in Japan for the last 25 years. So, yeah, like through her developed some of those contacts. Then, when I was another Shouzo Michikawa's in the show at Concord right now, I fired with him at Judith Duff's house, And so the firing is over and Shouzo, in broken English, makes a toast. At the end of the firing he's like you're all welcome at my house, but then I'm gonna come to your house, And that was the toast.
Speaker 2:So I was at John Dix's place. John Dix lived in Kobe and we were traveling to Tokyo for a workshop that John had set up And we needed a place to stay one evening. So I literally called Shouzo and he was like. He was like yeah, come on over. I spent the night at Shouzo's house. So I think it was like the next spring Shouzo was at our house. But I've been so fortunate I've been able to learn the stuff that I wanted to learn about the media that I signed up to work in.
Speaker 1:Is there anything that you haven't got to do yet, that's still like on the table for you, or that you'd like to do?
Speaker 2:Well, i don't know So where we're at right now. We've got it's kind of a greatest hit show in the gallery at Concord And that's just up through April 7th, but those folks are there. John Dix that I just spoke of, he's coming back in the fall. He's gonna fire with us. But no, i'm kind of thinking now about like, with these dump trucks and the bulldozers and the firing associated with that. I've developed it in such a way that I didn't want to think about the firing, that I wanted to fire these things like you were microwaving a sandwich. I just wanted to get it done. And I'm thinking more now that that clay has got some possibility Like there's some reduction firing options, that I think I could reduce clay at a low fire temperature and then continue to reduce it as it cools. And I have reason to believe there's some interesting possibilities there. And that'll get me back to a situation where I'm feeding the kiln pots pretty pretty regular for a while And since
Speaker 1:you like back down a new rabbit hole of like experimentation.
Speaker 2:Kind of what I'm thinking about. And then one of our colleagues has been given some lectures about business in art and design. That's kind of got me thinking too, because I have always just kind of tried to get the piece ready for the show And it's really been fun, been scrambling a lot. But I think maybe I should spend a little bit of time trying to benefit financially too.
Speaker 1:Could you have made a living off your art alone at this point, or do you need that teaching?
Speaker 2:I think, the decisions that I've made. I definitely need the teaching position, but it has really enabled me to learn what I wanted to learn and to make the work that I wanted to make. So, yeah, i definitely, definitely need the-.
Speaker 1:There's a trade off there, Yeah at this point. Well, so the best of show that you have up right now. I thought was going to be up or had just gone up, so it'll be gone. But to like Brett Kern stuff I really like, oh yeah, but there's a lot of really awesome stuff in there.
Speaker 2:No, you know, and Brett Kern was really interesting too. I mean he gave a lecture that had like 13 different symptoms references in it at one point. But Brett Kern's an interesting human being and he really has made the work that he wants to make and really use social media to make that viable financially. So he's left tenured positions and has bought a house making those dinosaurs and things. So, yeah, that's definitely just influential because he really engages in the parts of the process that he likes and the parts of the process that he doesn't like he eliminates. So he's an interesting person. I'm really interested in what he's done.
Speaker 1:For you. What part do you like?
Speaker 2:You know I love being in the clay but at any phase of it I like the problem solving aspects of it. If it was easy, i think I would have lost interest early on.
Speaker 1:Do you still run into problems? Oh yeah, yeah. Well, let me-.
Speaker 2:And I guess, like when I say I like it, i like it, like when I've solved those problems, especially if there's something particularly beautiful about the way that the solution's arrived. But no, i'm never like whew, this is going wrong. It never happens that way.
Speaker 1:But in a process like even making these trucks and these things for a long time. What surprises you now? Well, you know, i don't know. There's always something that randomly crops up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, And I guess you know those trucks are really just everything in the design is kind of underpinned by this idea of like I want to enjoy making this thing. You know, I think about instructors I had as an undergraduate, and different experiences in grad school, And even the artists that we look up to and study, when we tend to kind of glorify the suffering And that's more enjoyable when it's someone else's suffering, you know. But art is a struggle but it's still nice when you win, It's nice when things come together in the end And so, yeah, like with these trucks and those bulldozers, I really wanted to set up a situation where I could really enjoy the making. So, yeah, there are problems but there's not frustration. You know, in the way We talked about kiln loads blowing up and things like that, There's not nothing of that nature. Magnitude is taking place. Like I've never had to question my life choices while making a big dump truck to this point.
Speaker 2:You know, I guess there's always, there's always possibilities.
Speaker 1:So this next week, yeah. What do you want to like? what do you want to see your stuff in like five or 10 years?
Speaker 2:I hope I'm able to just keep making more. As far as what direction it goes, i don't know I need to. I've been talking about this idea of low fire reduction for a while. I need to shut up and get some of those kilns fired. I've made the objects and there's another clay body that I've been exposed to because of COVID and the way that impacted classroom activities. We ended up with a commercial clay that will go from like cone O5 to cone six. So I've got some objects made out of that that I need to fire and reduction cool and see what I can get with that. Yeah, i don't know. Six years, 10 years, that's a long time. I don't really know what direction, but I just I hope there's still work. I hope I'm still making work at that point.
Speaker 1:Hope you haven't got fired yet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I hope I haven't got fired.
Speaker 1:So do you have any shows coming up soon that you're aware of?
Speaker 2:So at the end of August I'm doing a workshop with Nancy Green and John Dix at Judith Duff's pottery. So Judith passed away a couple of years ago but her husband, royal, is still working to maintain her legacy and things. So this workshop's been planned. So we'll be firing her kilns with small group of students. So I think that's the biggest thing that's on my mind right now for the next year, because there's our wood-fired kilns So I've got to feed them wood-fired pots, yeah, so yeah, i'll be making some pots for that and getting ready.
Speaker 1:So where can people see your work on the internet?
Speaker 2:On the internet. Right now it's really only my Instagram page. I have a private Instagram account. If someone sends me a request and they can establish that they're a human, i will accept that request. I understand.
Speaker 2:But yeah, that's kind of where we're at right now. I've been thinking about that more too, and the show that's up right now. I've been trying to post a little bit more about that, So I don't know if that account's gonna stay private. But I also treated my Instagram account as I didn't keep anything off there. Like my kids are all over that. I'm on it. Now my kids have Instagram accounts. So, anyway, that's where I'm at right now, Like that's the most meaningful thing. I think I'm at the end of being the department chair right now and that's kind of there's a lot of different stress that comes along with that. I was like I just don't need to worry about this Instagram account making me miserable or this website making me miserable, So we'll see where that's at in the next year, I would expect.
Speaker 1:Your focus has largely been with the university.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for like. Since 2004, my focus has been with the university.
Speaker 1:So whenever this goes away, are you gonna be like full throttle, jamie Biggs, putting your stuff out there left and right?
Speaker 2:It's hard to tell. I've also developed a really nasty white water habit in the last few years And that is fueled by a skiing addiction as well. So, no, i really don't know. I don't know what's gonna happen. My oldest son this will be his third year as a video kayaker at ACE.
Speaker 2:We bought rafts to fish when all these kids were little, you know. Those were all really good, meaningful experiences And we've got access to the new river and like 30 minutes into Virginia and just amazing smallmouth fishing. I remember sitting on the back of the boat and seeing like my oldest son cast, my daughter cast, my other daughter cast, my wife cast, my youngest son cast. I was like that was a lot of hooks and this boat is not that big Like this is dumb. It's dumb to have all these hooks flying around. And so somewhere along the way we just we started paddling bigger stretches of water, hadn't spent more time in Fayetteville to where the last few years we've been competent on the lower new And, like said, my oldest son is far more competent than I am And he'll start college this fall. But yeah, that's. You know, those are maybe not not things that we've talked about, but that's been going on since 2004.
Speaker 1:Well, you mentioned earlier like hey, my personal life is sometimes far more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, And it just comes and goes. It seems like if the university gets kind of intense, then family will calm down a little bit And somebody's always picking up the slack. There's not a calm period. But I would say I think the last few years so too, I've made it a priority to get sleep, Like all those days in Indiana and early on teaching and building these wood kilns, like I just went without sleep. So yeah, I don't, I don't know. I don't know what another 10 years is going to look like. I'm sure art and making of some kind is going to be a part of that, But it's it's hard to tell what that's going to look like.
Speaker 1:Hey guys, thanks again for making it to the end of the episode. We hope you learned something new about the artists. More than anything, please go out and help support their work. We know they'd appreciate it more than they can tell you. Again want to say thank you to Darren Hackwood for allowing us to use his song Hurricane Season as our intro and outro music And, lastly, if you want to get ahold of us, reach out to us on our various social media platforms or via our website, which is linked in the show notes. At any rate, we'll see you all again in two weeks. Thank you again.